User Experience: not great so far

To be fair, I might do something wrong (always a possibility), but in the current state (of my experience with it), I would never ever use the transform engine on any channel of consequence.
I had it with me on a spoken word comedy tour, which had a few musical parts and a voice pitch effect in it… so I used it on just two split vocal channels… just to try it out.
It was one instance of Autotune Pro 11 on one channel and one instance of DDMF Pitchwheel on another channel in the transform app. DANTE Devices were: Yamaha DM7 Compact, TIO, RME Digiface Dante, Transform Engine. At no point did Dante Controller report any errors.

First of, transform engine never ran without cpu spikes and audible audio glitches at 64 samples buffer every other minute or so. TWO Plugins!! A ten year old laptop with a free plugin host can do better than that.
Most of the venues we played were too small to run 512 buffer, so we decided to live with the crackles in the song parts of the show. But on some days it was so bad, we had to ditch the Autotune and just used transform for the Pitchdown effect. It was used during a simulated phone call so the glitches luckily fit the program in a weird way… But this would definitely not fly with any other material.
On other days the transform engine just stopped reacting to the pc app. Although I could still connect to it from the start screen (control network did not seem to have interruptiones), I had to reboot transform engine to get access to it again. So on some days we had to run the show without control app.
On the last show of the tour, I could not get transform engine to run at all. After a reboot it would “work” for a minute and then “heartbeat engine stalled” message appeared and the audio muted and there was nothing I could do about it, except reboot again.
I have to say, I’m a quite disappointed. I was low key expecting to see a hotfix update as soon as there were some reports of audio glitches from users, but nothing happened.

Secondly there are quite a few plugins that you can not control reliably or safely enough for a live setting. Meaning: In some plugins (that work just fine in any other plugin host or DAW) the knobs and faders do not react, or react way too much, or react completely erratic. Some plugins missing menus, some miss the whole gui. Latency changes are not recognized by transform engine. Modifier keys usually do nothing… and so on.

I get worried when I read the roadmap with all the new features planned, while the ones that really matter are not even there yet, namely to be able to pass audio through the device uninterrupted and to host plugins safely and full functioning.
I am starting to doubt my plans to take transform engine with me on the bigger music shows coming up next spring, were I originally planned to really take advantage of plugins in a live environment, when the system is this flaky.

Therefor my question:
Are there any updates planned within the next few months, that address the cpu spikes and the plugin control issues or should I abandon my plans?

2 Likes

Did you send log files with error reports to support?
Then You might get an answer to whether something’s going wrong or if tere is a user error.
Otherwise it’s very hard to get/give usable feedback.

Also check in the plug-in database list if the plugins you use are cleared by Fourier or the plug-in brand to be used with Fourier engine.
Regards Rob

Log File:

I’ve had a thorough sitdown with transform engine over the last few days, trying out which plugins are fit for use.
Here are my findings:

RUN WITH STEADY CPU

Abberant DSP Lair
Abberant DSP Sketch Cassette
Apogee SoftLimit
Bertom Airshelf
Blue Cat Audio Patchwork
Devious Machines Bassfocus
Devious Machines Multiband X6
Fabfilter Pro Q4, Pro DS, All the other Pro’s, Saturn 2, Timeless 3 (doubleclick does not work)
Fircomp2
GSat Plus
JS Inflator
Kiive Tube KC-1
kilohearts Frequency Shifter (knobs dont work properly with mouse)
kilohearts Transient Designer (knobs dont work properly with mouse)
Klevgrand Revolv
MeldaProductions MAutoPitch (knobs react too sensitive with mouse)
Outobugi Clamp
Outobugi Refire
Plugin Alliance Lindell MU-66
Plugin Alliance Maag EQ
Plugin Alliance Mixland Vac Attack
Plugin Alliance ThreeBodyTech EQ (mouse wheel doesnt work)
QuikQuak Pitch Wheel (Latency!)
Soundevice Verbum
Toneboosters Voice Pitch
Valhalla Supermassive
Valhalla Vintage Verb
Wavesfactory Equalizer
Wavesfactory Spectre
Xfer OTT ( !loads at 100%! ) (tiny bit of Latency)

*Modifier keys don’t work on pretty much all of them

ONE INSTANCE OF THESE MAKE TRANSFORM ENGINE’s CPU VOLATILE AND CAUSE DSP OVERRUNS AND AUDIO DROPOUTS:

Antares Autotune Pro 11 (CPU very unstable)
Devious Machines Pitch Monster (CPU unstable)
Nuro Audio Xpitch (CPU somewhat unstable inside Patchwork) (not even available in Transform Engine)
Plugin Alliance Shadow Hills Mastering Comp (CPU unstable)
Plugin Alliance bx crispytune (no GUI) (tends to crash inside of Patchwork)

Playfair Audio Dynamic Grading (CPU unstable - DSP Overruns) (works in Blue Cats Patchwork)
Boz Digital Provocative (kills CPU) (works in Blue Cats Patchwork)

Three-Body Tech SpecCraft (CPU unstable - DSP Overruns) (unstable in Blue Cats Patchwork as well) (needs to be taken off the

Hey FMN-Music,

Firstly, apologies for the issues you’ve encountered and delay in getting back to you, we’ve been on Christmas break here at Fourier HQ. We never enjoy hearing about issues but will always work to get you up and running as soon as possible.

As Rob mentioned, if there is ever anything urgent, please do get in contact with our support team ([email protected]). They will be able to get to the bottom of the issues as soon as possible. The last thing we want is unhappy customers and if it’s time critical, they are always on hand.

In regards to Autotune Pro 11, was it the full version you were trying to run? That version is a heavy plugin and without being able to test this second, I’d be surprised if it would run at low period sizes. Did it run fine at 512 size? For low latency applications, Autotune Pro Artist (the live version) is perfect for this. Autotune Pro 11 has 59ms of latency off the top of my head, and Autotune Pro Artist has roughly 2ms.

If a plugin can’t process the audio in the time available (period size), it will cause a DSP overrun and potentially an audio glitch (sometimes this will not be audible) but it will make no difference if it is on a 10 year old laptop or transform.engine. Certain plugins need more time to process audio than others, for example, you’ll see Waves state on their website that Clarity Pro will only run at 512 buffer sizes. If you load that in and try running at 32 or 64 period size, you will get a large amount of DSP overruns and audio glitches regardless of the system you’re running it on.

  • stopped reacting? Could you elaborate further? Timestamps when this happened would help us look in the logs.
  • ‘Heartbeat stalled’ suggests there is clocking issues on your network, are you confident it was all clocked correctly?

As Rob also mentioned, we have a plugin database (plugins.fourieraudio.com), it’s also a great place to report any bugs for specific plugins. Without more specific information, it’s hard to narrow down the issues you mention.

DSP load bar is granted a known issue where it can spike at random intervals and is listed on our website, we will be releasing a fix for this in the coming weeks along with other bug fixes and new exciting developments.

We have a large number of users using transform.engine without issue, so audio glitching would suggest other issues which would be great to get to the bottom of. If you could send over as much information as possible to [email protected], time stamps, does it work at 512 period size? Specific control issues? We can also get a call in the diary if it would help.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Thanks,

Elliot

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Hi Elliot,

thanks for your response and for sharing some insights.
Eagerly awaiting what improvements the update will bring.

The Log:
The first part of the tour we had a hired unit from a colleague, because ours did not arrive in time. So the interesting part of the provided log starts around the 4th of November up to 16th of December (the day I could not get transform engine to work at all).

The Tune:
Yes, I bought a license Autotune Pro 11, because I was told by the distributer, it will work. It turned out, it was with the previous version, not the current :-/
I don’t think I will be shelling out another 350€ for Autotune Artist, as I have licenses for 7 Autotune Plugins now and I got Nuro Xpitch (which would have been my first pick for live-use anyways) working without glitches inside of BlueCat Audio Patchwork.

The Pain:
“Stopped reacting” means that I could not get back control over the unit. I could reconnect to the unit, but was then greeted by the same “Connection lost” site inside of the app. Restart required.

The Clock:
I’m pretty confident, that we had every device at 48k and no one other than the DM7 claimed Master and had Sync to external engaged. Inbetween shows we did not change any system settings other than transform’s buffer size. Hopefully the log will give hints on what we might have configured wrong.

The Database:
I checked the Plugin Database and supplied a few suggestions before I received my test unit, but this seems to be a slow process, so I knew I had to do my own tests. Did not know at that time, that even if I could install a plugin, it was still a bit of a hit & miss if it could be controlled or run somewhat decent.

The Rant:
I’ve been avoiding plugins for live-use up until now, but I’m not new to the plugin world in general. Been using DAW’s since 1999. Did years of Beta Testing for Steinberg Cubase and still do for Studio One. I belive I have an above average understanding of what a plugin host should be able to do, and transform engine (in my opinion) has a bit of catching up to do.

That said, I’m still glad that transform engine exists and you guys had the courage, did the deed and put in the work to open up third party plugins for live-use in a dedicated box, without having to enter the Waves, UAD or Avid universe. I was excited when I heard about it and I am still excited for what the future will bring on this front.

Best regards,
Stefan

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Hi Stefan,

As mentioned, if it is time critical, pleasure email our support team. It would also be great to get an email address so we can track these issues with our support team.

Do you have a more precise time frame within that 6 weeks? Time of day as well? What do you mean it did not work at all on the 16th? Any time reference to look for?

Apologies if the distributor gave you the wrong information but Autotune version 10 would not have worked with transform.engine due to there old licensing method, Webo (Webo doesn’t support licensing inside a virtual machine). I did some beta testing for them when version 11 was announced and there migration back to iLok.

Looking at the CPU volatile list, Autotune Pro 11 I imagine will run fine at 512 which I would expect for such a processor hungry plugin. Shadow Hills Compressor has been used for a long time without issue by customers so curious to hear more, it was one of the first every plugins used on the transform.engine back on Professor Green!

Copy that on Crispytuner and Xpitch, aware of issues with them, thanks for flagging. I haven’t tried Devious machines but will when I have a chance.

And thanks for the feedback, it is greatly valued, the team are have been doing some incredible work and we are very excited to share it!

Thanks,

Elliot

Hi Elliot,

thanks for following up on this.

On Showdays, the Transform Engine was running from about 15:00cet to 23:00cet.

In November Showdays with that Unit where I experimented with settings the most were:
04. 05. 06. 07.
11. 12. 13. 14. 15.
20. 21. 22.

16th of Dec
“On the last show of the tour, I could not get transform engine to run at all. After a reboot it would “work” for a minute and then “heartbeat engine stalled” message appeared and the audio muted and there was nothing I could do about it, except reboot again.”

If I had to estimate I would say, the struggle to get it running would have been taking place at about 16:30cet

I do not have precise timestamps as far as “when transform did what” because I did not take notes. I’m curious as to why the log does not show when the unit was running or when there were error messages…

512 buffer is kind of high above the next shorter value (64) and adds a recognizable latency, which is not desirable in addition to Dante’s Latency. More steps inbetween these two values might be a compromise worth considering.

On the topic of: “This plugin is just too heavy to run at 64 samples”.
You are right, heavy plugins do need more processing power. And yes, the less buffer/time you give the system, the more processing resources are needed.
But it is also true, that issues (like audio dropouts) do arise quicker, when either the firmware, or the drivers of hardware components are not coded well. Then there is a bigger chance for interruptions in time-critical processes and this is where I think the problem with transform engine is right now.

To underline my point:

Here is a video of 5 Antares Auto Tune Pro 11 (Low Latency Mode 0,8ms) running on a 5 year old AMD CPU inside of Studio One with a buffer size of 32 samples on a RME Fireface UFX II (well coded drivers).
The Asio Meter hovers steadily around 27%. No jumping, no spikes, no audio dropouts.
The Plugin is not the issue here.

my email address is stefan.rauch[at]fmn-music[dot]com

kind regards
Stefan

My Transform Engine does not cope well with Shadow Hills Comp:

On another note:
Is this something I should be worried about?

I also had problems with the Shadow Hills, the session was totally unstable until I removed it, it’s not a big deal for me though. But I had other problems too.
I have sent two emails in November with Log files and didn’t get any answer, maybe it landed in the spam folder. My email is: [email protected]


It would be great if I could have an answer mail.
Thank you in advance!

Ben - apologies your e-mails went missing, we’ve been trying to find them in our support system and trying to work out what happened to them, it’s possible that with a zip file attached a virus scanner would have bounced them. I believe you’re now in touch with Elliot directly?

Stefan; there is a lot going on here, and as Elliot has mentioned a few times, if you are experiencing severe issues like this we would ask that you let us help you by opening a support ticket by e-mailing [email protected] . The forum is not generally an effective place for us to provide support, particularly with an involved case like this.

The symptoms you describe of not being able to run two plugins correctly or to run the unit for more than a few minutes is obviously not expected behaviour and indicates there may be something seriously wrong with your engine; we have users with fully loaded 64 channel showfiles running successfully with no issues, so there is clearly something deeper we would like to get to the bottom of by working with you to understand and reproduce what you’re seeing.

For example, it could possibly be that your unit has a hardware fault which is causing e.g. the CPU to overheat - but we need to work with you to investigate this; so please, if you are still experincing issues, get in touch with us via the support channels and we’ll be more than happy to investigate.

Many thanks,

Pete